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| Holly Chesser |
HRC: Ok, so as I mentioned before, my friend asked me to write about patriarchy. Initially, I was going to write about the varied treatment of women and men in politics. Abuse heaped on Hillary Clinton (and by the way, Nikki Haley now because she opened her mouth) tends to demean them sexually: the uninspired, common “dumb whore,” “stupid slut,” “crazy bitch” that women have endured for years. Critics of Trump and Jeb may have nothing nice to say about the two, but they don’t “reach below the belt” for their choice terms. But I decided against writing that blog post because I didn’t want to spend any time thinking about people who think or talk that way about women. Instead, I had an exchange with a student that took my thinking down a different path. One of my students asked me if I am a feminist. I responded, “Of course, I’m a woman. Why wouldn’t I be a feminist?” She sorta rolled her eyes and commented, “Burn your bra and all that.” I retorted, “No, equal pay and respect and all that.” Her dismissiveness of feminism made me wonder if there is a generational divide that I had just encountered and couldn’t appreciate. I have to regularly remind this young woman that her skirt is too short, a dress code infraction. She’s a little sassy in a very likable way and generally has the last word – like telling me that she’s sorry if what she’s wearing is disturbing the boys. I’ve quite literally had to tell her that I don’t think anyone in the building should know the color of her underwear simply because they are following her up the stairs. So, what am I missing? Some might argue that my behavior towards her qualifies as “slut shaming,” but does it? Shouldn’t we all keep our privates private? You’re a former student, roughly 20 years younger than I. Help me understand.
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| Jennifer Uffalussy |
JGU: I think we have to start by breaking these into a few separate issues, the two biggest being the unfortunate resistance that young women feel about the word "feminist" (help us, Beyonce!), and then the separate issue of so-called slut-shaming. And I should qualify all of this with the fact that a high school student would probably think I am old and out of touch too since I now graduated almost 15 years ago. The issues are linked for me, and I believe for you, too -- but I think for many young women in particular, they are not -- which probably brings us to them resisting the whole feminist label to begin with. I really wish I knew why feminist is a bad word. Because, like you said, to me it's like, “Hi -- do you believe that you have the right to make your own choices? Do you think human beings should, inherently, be thought of as equals? Because then you _should_ then say you believe in feminism.”
HRC: But I wonder if young women resist the word "feminism" because they equate that word with lesbianism, with challenging men, with strength. And they don't want to be viewed in those terms. They don't want to be viewed as aggressive, which of course is nonsense. Nonsense, as in lesbians, challenge, and strength are not inherently aggressive.
JGU: (Though of course this brings us to the whole other issue of "white feminism" vs "intersectional feminism" -- ideally, the word feminism would, be default, imply intersectional feminism. It often does not. That is also part of the problem. It reminds me of a college professor I had once who asked us all to define the word feminist and I told her I thought defining the word was anti-feminist.) But I don’t know, perhaps for your student -- I wonder if it's just more granny-ish. like, “ugh the olds are into the feminism.”
HRC: "The olds”? Please tell me that won't catch on. If it becomes a hashtag, I'm going to assume it's a misspelling. It seems to me that many young women want to define their power through their sexuality. Isn't that a throwback to the old dichotomy: men assert strength through physical power and women through sex?
JGU: No promises on “the olds.” I wonder too if some of the problem ("problem") is with a lack of conversation happening -- in homes, in school, among peers -- about the relationship between gender and sexuality. Because, for me, it's really important to not qualify feminism as a "women's issue" -- though of course women's issues are part of feminism. We just need more discourse on gender _and_ sexuality. And marginalization and otherness.
HRC: Yes, I think you're right because in schools gender is a word used in biology and sexuality is used in health class.
JGU: And both of those words are complicated in their own right! And we need to talk about that! Maybe this is wishful thinking, but maybe younger women would be less resistant to the idea of feminism if they realized how messy and amorphous it really is. And how if you care about bodies and performance and also about equal pay and who has the right to tell you what you can and cannot do with your own body -- that's all part of feminism.
HRC: At the beginning of the year, I engaged with my students in a discussion about rape on college campuses. We talked about the desire to explore independence from one’s parents and the need to protect oneself. One of the boys asked what role dressing or dancing provocatively played in rape. Does the woman have any responsibility to protect herself?
JGU: Campus rape is another topic like dress code where I think the issues get muddled a lot -- But to me, it comes down to -- no one is "asking for it." If a girl wanted to hang out naked all the time, good for her. But it would not be an invitation for assault or objectification, even. And I think that's where your dress code question comes up.
HRC: Naked in a public place or even at a party? Isn't there a difference between the ideal and the pragmatic here?
JGU: There is a phenomenal academic at the University of New Hampshire, Sharyn Potter, doing research on what she is calling "bystander culture" -- The idea that communities have to understand accountability. And that if you saw someone who looked drunk to the point where they were no longer coherent, as a bystander you are obligated to intervene. It's on you. And that the real problem is that we aren't socializing children -- from the youngest age -- about bystander culture enough. She always gives the example, which I love, of how her elementary school age daughter has a child in her class with a peanut allergy. But ALL the students know it is critical that they don't bring nuts to school. And they need to help watch out for the student too.
HRC: But I taught my daughter - now 24 - that she should never accept a drink from a boy at a party, never fill a cup from a barrel, always be with someone.
JGU: I mean, look who you are talking to. Safety first! But I don't think the two things cancel each other out. No one deserves to be raped. I don't care if you are blacked out drunk. And learning that in elementary school could in theory have a huge impact on how they grow up to think about "rape culture." If you see something, say something. And teaching consent in kindergarten even, too. We forget that age-appropriate sex ed is, in fact, age appropriate. For a kindergartener, that means asking if you can hug someone or hold their hand. And that is such an important lesson.
HRC: But rape is about power, right?
JGU: Rape is definitely about power.
HRC: Right. So what's that about? Why is rape prevalent on college campuses? I don't know the statistics - whether it's increased or decreased. But I wonder why men feel the need to assert such power. What's going on there? Although men can be raped, the numbers pale in comparison. If patriarchy is about male power, what is the continuing role of rape about? I wonder if - and believe me I'm not assigning blame to women at all - rape is so prevalent because women are dressing more openly and behaving more provocatively and men are asserting their power. As in, "there are less of us on campuses these days because these damn women are so bright, and what's worse they are dressing sexy and asserting themselves, and by God they can't have both, so I'm going to assert my age-old vestige of power - I am going to sexually overcome them"?
JGU: But this comes back to how we socialize young men. And these ultimately all come back to one person's word against the other. And certain people's words get privileged over others. Which again -- is where feminism comes into play.
HRC: But in the case of the UVA claim of rape, it wasn't rape.
JGU: UVA is so hard and so complicated too. (Full disclaimer: I know you went there!) Rolling Stone totally screwed up on every level of journalism. Like in every possible way. And I do think it is really really important to trust survivors, because one of the few things we do have hard data on is false reporting -- and it is so rare. Not that it never happens. But so, so rare. So if someone says they have been assaulted, believe them.
HRC: Actually, initially I didn't defend the school at all. There is enormous entitlement there. The exposure of the story has been really sad to me. Not because I wanted it to be true - of course, no one should want that. But now the waters are considerably muddled. But it's ridiculous to think that one woman speaks for all women. Or one Muslim speaks for all Muslims. etc. etc. etc.
JGU: Absolutely! I honestly hurt for any victim of assault whose story is dismissed (that much quicker) because of what happened with Rolling Stone. And the onus is really on Rolling Stone there. The systems are just all bad too. The systems themselves are too deeply flawed. Internal adjudication means something different to every school. And there is so much murkiness with disclosure. (Like what happened with that Oregon case I reported on!) We need Title IX reform and there are a lot of really smart young women advocating so hard. These two amazing young women started this
group, Know Your IX.
HRC: Ok, so what about the word “slut”? What does it even mean anymore?
JGU: That is actually one of my favorite stories I wrote last year!
HRC: It seems so many young women have appropriated the language of oppression like “slut” and “ho” in the same way that African Americans have taken ownership of the n-word.
JGU: Ooh I don't know about that as a 1:1 comparison.
HRC: Last year, I had a young black man write a wonderfully satirical essay on the proper reparations for slavery: exclusive use of the "n" word. What makes you uncomfortable about the comparison?
JGU: I think the historical context of the terms is just too incomparable And the weight, even. You can say "slut" on network TV. And for fear of the whole "speaking for all women" thing -- I think -- I think! -- that women who use the word slut re:themselves and their peers aren't doing so within a larger socio-political narrative. But doing so because it's just what they're supposed to be -- to go back to your way earlier point -- women are taught they can assert power through sexuality in a world where they are not equal with men, so. As Tenenbaum puts in her book, then you can be "the good slut." You can perform the role correctly. You can be sexual but not too sexual, to be threatening but sexy enough so that you’re noticed but innocuous.
HRC: Oh, god, that's so complicated. Sexual but not too sexual? So, no nip slip?
JGU: Or maybe, a nip slip but not a crotch shot. Social media plays such a big part in it too! Because you can document your own performance
HRC: But that goes back to what I mean. Kim K's sex tape got her where she is today. But I'd argue she is nowhere.
***Long conversation between teacher and former student about Blanche Dubois, Lady Macbeth, Jane Eyre, Virginia Woolf – blah, blah, blah ****
JGU: But it's all about choice -- and not that feminism only means drowning yourself and cheating on your husband and abandoning your children -- but that you can make whatever kind of choice you want. And not feel like your only option is drowning yourself. Or, do! And feel cool about that choice, as well!
Conversation ended shortly thereafter because, as Jen wrote, -
JGU: In 5ish minutes I have to go call the high school senior who asked Carly Fiorina about feminism (full circle!)
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